damn good reply...
From: Dang <dang_357@m3net.net>
Subject: Re: +++++++ IS "GOD" REAL? ++++++++
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:01:17 -0400
Message-ID: <3BACFC1C.3BF7A8AD@m3net.net>
Lines: 124
Gold_Top wrote:
> Q) If energy can neither be created or destroyed, then how was it created in
> the first place??
>
> A) It can from the universal God mind/Spirit, which brought matter/energy in
> to place by becoming CONCIOUS of it.
>
> Perhaps you should check out some metaphysics to go with your other list of
> very interesting subjetcs that you have studied...
>
> Taff <taff@wales.com> wrote in message
> news:9a01ntg5vvoj82i6a60cnlnv5mh24j47h0@4ax.com...
> > The universe is the way it is because it is that way.
> >
> >
> > Taff. ( new to the group ).
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:27:56 GMT, BW <zl1xvettex@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Do you know "SkepticL1" from the 49ers NG??? Never mind. Here is a
> > >post that I sent in response to a thread he started entitled "No Such
> > >Thing as Jesus".
> > >
> > >> Religious stories, fables, myths, or whatever you'd like to call them
> > >> have been passed around since the dawn of time. There are over 70
> > >> different cultures that have an account of the Great Flood with animals
> > >> on a ship, etc.
> > >>
> > >> What this really comes down to is a matter of Faith, or what do you
> > >> believe. Like Dirty Harry once said, "You gotta ask yourself a
> > >> question: do I feel lucky?"
> > >>
> > >> I've spent the last 30 years studying science, hold a degree in
> > >> Chemistry, and firmly believe in the theories of evolution and the Big
> > >> Bang. I've also studied religion and philosophy along the way.
> > >>
> > >> A few observations and scientific laws:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed.
> > >> 2. Matter can neither be created, nor destroyed, but its form can be
> > >> changed.
> > >> 3. For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.
> > >> 4. Life only comes from life.
> > >> 5. Once something is proved, faith is no longer relevant concerning
> the
> > >> matter.
> > >> 6. Today's fact can be tomorrow's fallacy, and vice versa.
> > >> 7. The concept of time is relative only to one's frame of reference.
> > >> 8. Sooner or later, it comes time to pay the Piper.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What then is my point???
> > >>
> > >> If we accept the laws of science, the known Universe and everything in
> > >> it did not spring forth out of nothing. An energy that has always
> > >> existed, and contained life, will always exist, and had to be the
> origin
> > >> of everything we know. The order, structure, and consistency of matter
> > >> and physical laws throughout the universe, from a macroscopic down to a
> > >> subatomic level, remain virtually unchanged irrespective of any
> > >> conditions or venue we might try to impose, and discrepancies are
> either
> > >> a case of limited understanding or observational error.
> > >>
> > >> The world as we know it did not come into existence by some grandiose
> > >> accident. Even then, who or what is responsible for the accident???
> > >> Someone or something, call it what you will, had to have a design in
> > >> place for it to work.
> > >>
> > >> Either you believe in a higher power, or you must then conclude that
> man
> > >> is the highest form of being. Or did the Space Aliens colonize our
> > >> planet??? No problem. Just tell me who created the Space Aliens.
> > >>
> > >> My response is not to "shove religion down your throat" or anything
> like
> > >> that. Were I to possess all the answers, I would write a book.
> > >>
> > >> But if you're man enough, or woman enough as the case may be, then take
> > >> this simple challenge: appeal to the Higher Power to make known its
> > >> presence to you.
> > >>
> > >> After that, keep an open mind, and wait to see what happens...
> > >>
> > >
> > >I firmly believe that there is a Higher Power that created this Universe
> > >and I'll spend the rest of my life trying to gain a minute
> > >understanding.
> > >
> > >
> > >BW
> >
> >
Gold Top, BW: You're both assuming it was created. The concepts of causality
you are familiar with from everyday life and "classical" (pre-quantum) science
are not guaranteed to work the same way at the top or bottom end of the scale.
(In fact, they are known not to at least at the bottom end (bottom of what
we've discovered, anyway), and, with some qualifying restrictions, energy and
matter do come into existence out of nothing, and vanish back into
nothingness.)
There is no solid foundation for the idea that the universe was brought into
existence. There are a lot of questions, and something related to consciousness
may have something to do with the answers, but we're a long way from certainty
of those answers.
We all have a natural tendency to want to know "what came before ________" or
"what caused _____" but there are situations in which those questions are
literally meaningless. The challenge (IMO) is to discover the right sorts of
questions, find ways of testing and answering those, and then integrate that
knowledge into what's already known.
Faith is faith. One is entitled to it, and may well be right about it, but
generalized conclusions from science, mixed in with assumptions that are not
borne out by factual evidence, don't prove or disprove the validity of one's
faith.
Dang
Subject: Re: +++++++ IS "GOD" REAL? ++++++++
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:01:17 -0400
Message-ID: <3BACFC1C.3BF7A8AD@m3net.net>
Lines: 124
Gold_Top wrote:
> Q) If energy can neither be created or destroyed, then how was it created in
> the first place??
>
> A) It can from the universal God mind/Spirit, which brought matter/energy in
> to place by becoming CONCIOUS of it.
>
> Perhaps you should check out some metaphysics to go with your other list of
> very interesting subjetcs that you have studied...
>
> Taff <taff@wales.com> wrote in message
> news:9a01ntg5vvoj82i6a60cnlnv5mh24j47h0@4ax.com...
> > The universe is the way it is because it is that way.
> >
> >
> > Taff. ( new to the group ).
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:27:56 GMT, BW <zl1xvettex@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Do you know "SkepticL1" from the 49ers NG??? Never mind. Here is a
> > >post that I sent in response to a thread he started entitled "No Such
> > >Thing as Jesus".
> > >
> > >> Religious stories, fables, myths, or whatever you'd like to call them
> > >> have been passed around since the dawn of time. There are over 70
> > >> different cultures that have an account of the Great Flood with animals
> > >> on a ship, etc.
> > >>
> > >> What this really comes down to is a matter of Faith, or what do you
> > >> believe. Like Dirty Harry once said, "You gotta ask yourself a
> > >> question: do I feel lucky?"
> > >>
> > >> I've spent the last 30 years studying science, hold a degree in
> > >> Chemistry, and firmly believe in the theories of evolution and the Big
> > >> Bang. I've also studied religion and philosophy along the way.
> > >>
> > >> A few observations and scientific laws:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed.
> > >> 2. Matter can neither be created, nor destroyed, but its form can be
> > >> changed.
> > >> 3. For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.
> > >> 4. Life only comes from life.
> > >> 5. Once something is proved, faith is no longer relevant concerning
> the
> > >> matter.
> > >> 6. Today's fact can be tomorrow's fallacy, and vice versa.
> > >> 7. The concept of time is relative only to one's frame of reference.
> > >> 8. Sooner or later, it comes time to pay the Piper.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What then is my point???
> > >>
> > >> If we accept the laws of science, the known Universe and everything in
> > >> it did not spring forth out of nothing. An energy that has always
> > >> existed, and contained life, will always exist, and had to be the
> origin
> > >> of everything we know. The order, structure, and consistency of matter
> > >> and physical laws throughout the universe, from a macroscopic down to a
> > >> subatomic level, remain virtually unchanged irrespective of any
> > >> conditions or venue we might try to impose, and discrepancies are
> either
> > >> a case of limited understanding or observational error.
> > >>
> > >> The world as we know it did not come into existence by some grandiose
> > >> accident. Even then, who or what is responsible for the accident???
> > >> Someone or something, call it what you will, had to have a design in
> > >> place for it to work.
> > >>
> > >> Either you believe in a higher power, or you must then conclude that
> man
> > >> is the highest form of being. Or did the Space Aliens colonize our
> > >> planet??? No problem. Just tell me who created the Space Aliens.
> > >>
> > >> My response is not to "shove religion down your throat" or anything
> like
> > >> that. Were I to possess all the answers, I would write a book.
> > >>
> > >> But if you're man enough, or woman enough as the case may be, then take
> > >> this simple challenge: appeal to the Higher Power to make known its
> > >> presence to you.
> > >>
> > >> After that, keep an open mind, and wait to see what happens...
> > >>
> > >
> > >I firmly believe that there is a Higher Power that created this Universe
> > >and I'll spend the rest of my life trying to gain a minute
> > >understanding.
> > >
> > >
> > >BW
> >
> >
Gold Top, BW: You're both assuming it was created. The concepts of causality
you are familiar with from everyday life and "classical" (pre-quantum) science
are not guaranteed to work the same way at the top or bottom end of the scale.
(In fact, they are known not to at least at the bottom end (bottom of what
we've discovered, anyway), and, with some qualifying restrictions, energy and
matter do come into existence out of nothing, and vanish back into
nothingness.)
There is no solid foundation for the idea that the universe was brought into
existence. There are a lot of questions, and something related to consciousness
may have something to do with the answers, but we're a long way from certainty
of those answers.
We all have a natural tendency to want to know "what came before ________" or
"what caused _____" but there are situations in which those questions are
literally meaningless. The challenge (IMO) is to discover the right sorts of
questions, find ways of testing and answering those, and then integrate that
knowledge into what's already known.
Faith is faith. One is entitled to it, and may well be right about it, but
generalized conclusions from science, mixed in with assumptions that are not
borne out by factual evidence, don't prove or disprove the validity of one's
faith.
Dang
posted by zcer at 6:50 PM
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
<< Home